Console W.A.R.S. Mods (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
consolemods) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
consolewarriors2018-02-05 09:30 pm
consolemods) wrote in consolewarriors2018-02-05 09:30 pm
BETA TESTING COMPLETE! (aka feedback post)
Hey, all! We hope you had a great time with the Mock Trial, and I'd like to thank everyone who participated! If you didn't really have the energy to or if your character didn't work out, don't feel bad about it. Mock Trials are basically, like, really intense TDMs that you sign up for, so it happens.
We would, however, like to know if there's anything we could improve upon! There are things we know didn't really get off the ground, like the Thursday Challenge and the boss battle. In the case of the latter, we couldn't really get to it because of time, which we kind of regret. We... also kind of regret the timing, since there was definitely a lot going on this weekend that we should have accounted for! And there was a little bit of bad luck for all of us too. So we'd like to ask your opinions on the experience as a whole, but especially the following:
1. The schedule. Did you guys like the Saturday/Sunday schedule as opposed to the Friday/Saturday schedule, or would you prefer something a little more traditional? Also, do you think a time limit built into trials (like, say, 6 hours) would be a good idea, or do you think that'd make things too stressful?
2. The challenge. Was it posted at a bad time? Would more direction have been helpful? Do you think the challenge should be built into the motive somehow?
3. Anything else? If there's anything else we could improve about the game, we'd like to hear it!
So, what's next? Well, Round 1, the Nintendo round, of course! For all first party, second party, and third party Nintendo games, whether they originated on a Nintendo system or not! So like you could totally play Night in the Woods characters. Just so you know. We don't have a definite timeframe for that yet, but it's definitely going to be in the spring after Airlocked and R3 of Foolish Mortals wrap up. We're thinking possibly late March-early April?
We would, however, like to know if there's anything we could improve upon! There are things we know didn't really get off the ground, like the Thursday Challenge and the boss battle. In the case of the latter, we couldn't really get to it because of time, which we kind of regret. We... also kind of regret the timing, since there was definitely a lot going on this weekend that we should have accounted for! And there was a little bit of bad luck for all of us too. So we'd like to ask your opinions on the experience as a whole, but especially the following:
1. The schedule. Did you guys like the Saturday/Sunday schedule as opposed to the Friday/Saturday schedule, or would you prefer something a little more traditional? Also, do you think a time limit built into trials (like, say, 6 hours) would be a good idea, or do you think that'd make things too stressful?
2. The challenge. Was it posted at a bad time? Would more direction have been helpful? Do you think the challenge should be built into the motive somehow?
3. Anything else? If there's anything else we could improve about the game, we'd like to hear it!
So, what's next? Well, Round 1, the Nintendo round, of course! For all first party, second party, and third party Nintendo games, whether they originated on a Nintendo system or not! So like you could totally play Night in the Woods characters. Just so you know. We don't have a definite timeframe for that yet, but it's definitely going to be in the spring after Airlocked and R3 of Foolish Mortals wrap up. We're thinking possibly late March-early April?
no subject
2) it was a bad time for me mostly because i was at work and then when i got free i couldn't get a sec to hop in but it might have been ok for other people? i think being built into the motive could be cool
3) no but i am sorry.........my activity was horrendous
no subject
but even though i had a ton of fun theres a few things i noticed that maybe didnt work as well as they could have or needed some tweaking.
1. the schedule! i dont know if i missed when you guys said the trial was going up or not. i looked in the faq and if i misread something or it was there then im sorry, but i dont remember you guys ever saying when it was supposed to go up. it seemed like there was no concrete schedule for events and you would put them up sometime during the day when you had the time or felt like it. a more concrete schedule with times would probably be better for people so if theyre interested they can make sure theyre available during that time or they know when something starts. setting a schedule and adhering to it is very important!
as far as setting a time limit for trials, i dont mind them! ive been in a lot of games where trials would run for about nine hours and there was a strict time for votes. i dont think its bad to do things this way! since theres a time limit people try to get things done and push themselves more. however, a time limit also means people start getting very stressed the closer it gets to voting time and it can make things more hectic. i think when theres a set timetable some people try harder to stick around for the full period to try and make the most of their time rather than taking breaks and pacing themselves. whichever you choose, i think six hours is too short a time for a murder game. some cases are easy and will be solved in three hours. some are harder and will take twelve hours. it just depends!
2. the challenge! im honestly a little confused on what we were supposed to do with the challenge. i looked at it when it went up and ended up not tagging out because i wasnt positive what the goal was. i think the intention was for it to be a way to interact and to promote CR but it was maybe a little too loose and aimless? having too many rules and strict guidelines is just as bad, but there not being a reward or point is just... confusing. ymmv though because i did see people were able to thread with each other and have a good time!
3. boy, anything else... i dont know how to phrase this so ill be upfront. i think you guys need to trust your playerbase a little more than you do. i didnt mind really and i wondered if it was a problem with the doc or me not relaying what i wanted enough (which is another thing! dont be shy with players, if theres a problem with the doc or people arent being clear enough or something just doesnt work, feel free to tell them to either rephrase it all or condense it! youre allowed to ask people to give you less and youre allowed to ask people to give you more! theres no shame in asking questions if something is incomprehensible too) but i still noticed a few things in the investigation that were... questionable. specifically, giving out the gimmick of there being two weapons. if sin hadnt brought the body, that would have been important information to give out but she did and they later compared the pitchfork to the wounds. that was them deducing on their own and figuring it out! they solved it by thinking about it, checking things, and pursuing their theories. as a casemaker that made me really happy because they put in the effort and found the right conclusion!
there was another moment with the rope where you guys seemed to use the doc almost word for word but added in a line that, frankly, told everyone what happened. the difference was something like...
"Bruising all around his right wrist, this is from the rope. There’s some blood smeared on his wrist but there aren’t any other wounds here."
vs the investigation which was:
"Anyway the wrist has some bruising on it. In fact, it looks almost like someone tied a rope to it, it's like rope burns. Also there is a tiny bit of blood smeared here but no wounds other than the bruising."
i have no problem with you guys adding the rope burns part. it seems fair to me! there would be friction, rope burns are pretty obvious, but you guys also outright told them what happened by specifying that "someone tied a rope to it." i noticed other descriptions given during the trial that were similarly transparent. you were giving people conclusions in your narrative rather than being ambiguous. it can be very difficult to be ambiguous, to be fair! i think its something you guys can work on though, and it wasnt a big deal cause it was a mock trial and we had a lot of new players!
but i also have to say that i think by being so straightforward, giving conclusions, and making the outline so transparent you actually made it difficult for players to discuss things during the trial. because the timeline was obvious and because the gimmick was obvious, people lept to trying to find decisive evidence rather than thinking critically.
other than that, i think you guys might need to figure out when to step in and give hints and when to let players figure things out for themselves. i was really surprised when you guys had the sheriff give out a hint without consulting me because every other game ive been in, ive been consulted before mods gave out hints or tried helping. i wouldnt have minded and wouldve said yes, but i was still very surprised to see it! communication is very important and if you think there are potentially problems with a case or it cant be solved, its a good idea to tell the culprit to go back over it before the investigation and make sure everything works. in uki what i did was i did a mini-investigation with a mod who was blind to the case to make sure it was solvable. if it wasnt, i told people to go back and add more evidence and if it was i left it! since you guys have three mods i think you could try something similar! o/
lemmie think... oh! kind of along the same lines, i think if you want to have scapegoats you might need to back away a little sometimes and let things play out how theyre gonna play out. i dont know if things wouldve been different if this were the game. if they were, thats fine! again, this was a mock trial so theres absolutely nothing wrong with wanting the players to succeed! but when you allow scapegoats you need to be prepared for the possibility of someone actually getting scapegoated. if you want to make sure every case is solved, i think thats fine! but i also think you need to have the rules reflect it a bit better. again, i really didnt mind dito getting voted off! i was ready for it at about 4:00 or 4:30PM EST. hes also a jerk so he got exactly what he deserved!
thats really all i have to say though! i hope my input helps, and youre free to take all of this with a grain of salt! every experience is different and everybody sees things differently! because i was on the culprit side i might be too biased to what i saw in the investigation rather than what the players saw 'cause i knew what went down. either way, i wanna repeat that i had a really good time and you guys were very helpful and fun when we did speak in the plurk! you gave fast replies and i never felt awkward asking you any questions! you were all very approachable and energetic, which i deeply appreciated!
no subject
Honestly, I felt really rushed on jumping in at the beginning because it started on a Monday and I'm not available for tagging while at work. Having Sunday be the first day of a week gives me more time to really absorb the info and not feel as much pressure to get a top level done fast.
2. Honestly, anything posted on a weekday afternoon is a bad time, but what was really unclear was that ICly it was required. Don't know if I just missed that or it wasn't clear enough but I got the impression that ICly it wasn't communicated that it was required and my character wasn't the most motivated to join in on stuff unless its forced upon him. I think that being more clear would have helped a lot because I honestly didn't know that it was required.
3. Honestly, I can't think of anything. My fail activity was just really a combination of me still recovering from being sick plus an insanely busy week at work where I was getting off late every day.
no subject
1. Schedule: I don't have a problem with the schedule especially since it makes things a little more comfortable for people who have to work during the weekdays. I can imagine the afterparty scheduling may get a little weird if the trial ends late, but considering those are always optional, it's not too big of a deal imo.
As for the trial, I do think that time limits do end up putting pressure on playerbase and while I'm not strictly opposed to them, 6 hours may be a little too short. I think the couple games I've seen sometimes have an 8-9 hour time limit, but admittedly my experiences in this area are limited. However, I do also think it puts additional stress on you mods to scrutinize the cases more to ensure they're solvable within the time limit, so that's something to keep in mind.
One thing that's sort of related is the timing of motives, investigations, trials and any other events you guys do; I don't believe I saw anything on the FAQ about when these would be put up, and while veterans who have been in previous murdergames may have been able to estimate around 12 PM EST, not everyone may be expecting this, especially newcomers. Even if all the people apping in are veterans, it's best to have everyone on the same page just so there aren't any misunderstandings. (If I was just dumb and missed it on your announcements or FAQ, ignore this and I apologize for being a derp orz)
2. Challenges: I do like the idea of having challenges as another way to build CR and have something to interact with over the week. However, I haven't been in any other games with challenges (like the ones listed in the FAQ) and as such I wasn't really sure if there was some kind of hidden tally you guys had to decide who a winner was or if you were expecting the end result to be decided amongst the players.
Either way, it would be good to have an idea of what's expected on an OOC level; like, is it just an event purely for CR building or are there actual prizes that affect things ICly? And if it's the latter, how is that aspect decided? I do understand not wanting to be 100% specific with the win condition so people don't try to game the system but it would be good to be more clear with what the goal was. Aside from that, it was nice to see some lighthearted fun and I look forward to what other challenges you guys have planned.
In regards to building it into the motive, it would be interesting but that would depend on the approach. One indirect way could be having the prizes be weapons, I guess? But since the motive largely depends on that week's case, I don't know if it would be feasible to connect it consistently. If you guys had a more specific idea though, I'd be up for giving more directed feedback!
3. Miscellaneous:
a. While I understand that writing up punishment kills isn't a top priority, it would've been nice to have a little more detail on Makoto's body? We know she was bloody and dusty, but it was unclear how she actually died and there's a pretty big difference between what a gunshot wound implies and, say, looking like you were mauled by a bear. It's also something that could be tied into the sheriff's background/abilities or the overall lore, just so there's a little something more for the PCs to consider.
b. This might be kind of a nit pick but imo, I wasn't too fond of the glasses HUD? Part of it was because I honestly kind of forgot they were there half the time and part of it was because during case planning we suddenly remembered they were there and they were covering Niles' eye. It ended up being a non-issue but having something stuck on a character's face is sort of intrusive in the sense that the player should be aware of it at all times but... it's also really easy to forget it exists. Tbf that could just be my problem because my memory is shit!! But some other alternatives could be like an earpiece that has a hologram projector, a watch, a phone that blows the character up if it's x distance away from the person, etc. if you wanted to keep characters from taking it off/tossing it away.
(Also, just out of curiosity: is pigeon Dito still wearing the glasses??)
c. Lastly, boss battles. I like the idea of it because it does give more for people to interact with after the trial! However, like we found out here, timing was an issue and I can only imagine that getting a little messier if the players need to be allotted some time to play out the execution. In this instance, I can see the appeal in going back to a standard Friday-Saturday schedules for investigation and trial just so you can give people time to backthread the execution on Sunday.
I also see that in the FAQ it does say that the surviving characters get to vote which people get to fight, and I do feel like that runs into the possible issue of having the same(ish) characters voted every time, particularly since I assume non-combatant characters wouldn't be voted for and the strongest/most gung-ho fighters would. It also would take up additional time OOCly just setting that vote up. While it's possible it'd work out just fine for a round, one possible alternative might be to just RNG the characters and contact players ahead of time to see if they'd like to participate.
Anyways, I had fun with what threads I had here and I'm sorry I wasn't able to contribute more activity-wise, but I hope this comment gives you guys some things to consider!
no subject
Schedule: I actually prefer investigations on Friday, I think. I like having Sunday as a cooldown/wind-down day. I understand that it's hard on the mods with work schedules for a typical Friday, but even starting them later (6pm est or maybe even a bit past that)? Might work out.
I also agree with everyone here that I had no idea when things were going up, and that would have been nice to know. I might have missed it in the FAQ, but even a causal reminder in plurk (see you tomorrow at X for trial!) would have helped a lot.
Investigations: This kind of ties into Makoto's death, but I found the details here very blunt and straightforward, and not descriptive in a sense. I know it can be a challenge to translate case docs into investigations, but I think it really helps to set the scene to show, not tell detail. Not only does it add to tone, but it also allows more to be discussed at trial.
Trial: I'm not sure if this was a mock trial only thing, but I think having profiles (even if they're very basic like weight/height, age) would help a lot. I found it a challenge to profile a killer with nothing to go on. In a kind of similar vein, I didn't like how the Sheriff straight up told everyone "you're missing a clue". I realize this is probably for OOC reasons with things going long and a lot of people being busy, but it just sat wrong with me.
Challenges: I like the idea of these in theory, but I wasn't really sure what I was supposed to do. And as a person who plays a lot of ornery/stubborn characters, I would preferably want something that I could rope them into somehow. I am all here for nonsense but a lot of my guys aren't.
Boss Battle: Seeing as these will likely be on the fly I understand there's little room for planning with these, but I personally am not really a fan of player driven executions. That being said, I think it might be better to allot some separate time for them—after sitting through a long trial a lot of people are understandably burnt out and need to recharge.
All that being said, I want to reiterate again that I did have fun!
no subject
As for your questions:
1. I prefer the traditional investigation set up of Friday/Saturday, and have even been in games where investigation started pretty late on the EST side of things (but that had to do with timezones.) The only reason why I do is because it feels a little wonky & weird to start trial on Sunday because the next day is Monday, essentially. Given the fact that there are things such as final boss battles to set up, it might be wise to take into account that those might elongate the trial itself and/or make it difficult to wrap it up before a new week begins. Personally, I could still swing the trial participation either way but if boss battle goes up late on Sunday I wouldn't have time to diddle in that.
You guys can also impose a time limit if you wish, but if so, it'd be best to have it at least go from 12 | 1 pm to 9 pm, so that there is enough time for people to discuss and hash things out!
2. I think, personally, the challenge was posted at a bad time because of the fact it was around noon in the middle of the week. It might benefit more people to post it at a later time on the same day -- I have been in a few murdergames that when there's events in the middle of the week they've been posted at, like, let's say 2 pm est at the earliest (or sometime that is generally later than 12 pm or noon) so that people have time to jump in and do stuff. So that might work for you guys.
I think it'd have been better if -- whether or not the challenge being built into the motive happened or no -- that the challenge would've had more direction. Like in the sense of...actually ending at a specific time, for example. It didn't seem like anyone participating in the challenge ended up having their actions make an impact on that. I wasn't sure if that was the intention, but if not, then there should've been a little something generated from what characters were doing in there. If that makes sense.
3. I think the most important thing here is that, like a few people have said, making sure people know when things go up. It can't be stressed enough; if people don't know when things are happening, then they might just bounce off or do whatever.
Also, as an addendum, I thought the Sheriff saying there is one more thing they hadn't found might've been a bit too much. Of course, some NPCs in murdergames are liable to assist more than others, but I was just not expecting it in this format. So it might've come as a surprise to me.
With that being said, I want to mention once more that I did enjoy my time in the game and can't wait for the game proper!
no subject
Unlike Ran and Maple, I am 100% new to modding, so asked to lead NPCing so I could get some experience and see if it was a good role for me. I agree that we could have communicated better, and in retrospect I see places where I should have stepped in to make things more clear! That said, from Wednesday until yesterday I was knock-me-into-bed ill, including an ER visit at one point, but I really wanted to do the thing so did it anyway. This resulted in less quality than you might have otherwise gotten! We're making plans to set things up so that more than one player can manage them in the future in case shit like this happens again with one of us.